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RANGLEY SPINNER (with fly)


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46 replies to this topic

#1 DAVEL

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 11:31 PM

Hello Friends,

Does any one have photos or original flies from a Rangley Spinner. A gentlemen asked me to tie some flies for his collection of old Rangeley Spinners.
I am trying tie them as close as I can to the original. Also what size hooks and type would help too.

Here's a couple of pics...
Thanks for the help!
Dave

Attached File  P3162410.JPG   65.65K   134 downloadsAttached File  P3162411.JPG   63.75K   127 downloads

#2 catskilljohn

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:28 AM

Thats a cool piece of history there Dave! Hope you post them before shipping them off.

Also, is your inbox full? I need to talk to you. CJ

#3 DAVEL

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:51 AM

CJ..he collects old fishing gear, I haven't seen his collection, but I heard it's pretty cool!

Try the pm now..I cleaned it up!

Dave

#4 easterngray

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 01:55 AM

Hi Dave - I can't help with pics, but a couple things to keep in mind... those fluted blades were never very small - , the flies to accompany them would have been "lake" fly size - at least a size 2 or larger. Also - all the flies tied for spinners I've seen are tied on ring (straight) eye hooks. a turned eye won't run properly. The Mustad 3366 is perfect and typical of that style. Of course that illustration looks like it may have been a blind eye to wire, so if that's the case the eye point is moot. I hope we get to see your flies on the spinners! they are really cool! Cheers, Alec

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#5 catskilljohn

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:10 AM

Also - all the flies tied for spinners I've seen are tied on ring (straight) eye hooks. a turned eye won't run properly. The Mustad 3366 is perfect and typical of that style.


Good point Alec.

What do you think of running the gut through the eye of a down eye hook and lashing it to the shank? That's providing Dave wants to use eyed hooks.
Dave, I have a couple hundred 3366's in #4, and a few in 1/0, you can have whatever you want, let me know. CJ

#6 DAVEL

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:12 AM

Hey thanks Alec for the reply. Ya he gave me some #2 irons and some heavy gut. He collects this old stuff, and said he's never found a complete vintage spinner with the fly intact. One of my questions is..would the red strip on the Parmachene be married or tied on the side?..or does it matter?

#7 catskilljohn

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:30 AM

If you ask me, I wouldn't think it matters. I have see old flies with strips not married, it was faster to tye that way I would imagine. CJ

#8 catskilljohn

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 02:34 AM

I was just digging through some stuff...here is another picture of some of those spinner flies. I found a box of "New York Trout Hooks" in a size #3, ring eye and a pretty vicious kirb too!

Posted Image

CJ

#9 easterngray

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 03:11 AM

That fly pictured looks to be a flanking strip, not married, though I would hardly think he'd complain if you married 'em!! You could probably run through a turned down eye and lash it, but it wouldn't be true to the original form... CJ that's a cool picture! Here's an old Hildebrandt ad... some of the hooks here almost look like a sneck...

Posted Image

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#10 DAVEL

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:23 AM

Thanks guys for the all the info and pics. Those are some bad ass hooks there CJ. Good eye Alec, that's the way I saw the red strip too.
And here's another twist...in Leonard's book " Flies" under fancy lake flies the Parmachene Belle calls for red strip over, and no white hackle,but yellow hackle palmered over the body and also a yellow floss body..not wool!........ Also now I'm wondering if the wing is a white breast feather with a red strip over..like the one in Alec's Picture?
Now I'm totaly Confused!!Posted Image

Dave

#11 geraldsherbrook

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:54 AM

Dear DAVE,

Wonderful input ...and 'going for' (goal !!!)

Very intresseting subject and 'spinner flies' !

Looking forward to YOUR results DAVE !!!

Geert
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#12 easterngray

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 12:52 PM

Dave - Leonard is right. Palmered yellow hackle over yellow floss. See the Parm. Belle in Favorite Flies and you'll note a very short palmered yellow hackle. Of course it's been tied without too, so either way is "correct". I would suggest that the wing is not a breast feather, but merely wide slips - goose, swan, sumpin' along those lines. Alec

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#13 ted patlen

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 03:32 PM

yo,

many spinners from back then incorporated any of the popular patterns of the time...and the idea (i think) was the ability to interchange flies. some of the mills catalogs had a series of flies sold as Indian Rocks. mostly lake flies etc. that were attached to teh looped ends (various configurations) of the wire on the spinner.

as for the dressings....wool and silk were used frequently as substitutes for each other. as with silver or gold tinsel. wing types changed by fly tying companys for trout or bass etc. ...these were commercial flies tied for spinners, so they weren't tyed as critically as the regular flies so many were rough and heavy they probably fell from popularity because bucktail tyed on the hook was just as effective, faster and easier to produce, and much stronger.

married wings would take too long so folded sections of wing quill flanked with splints was used extensively. even Ray Bergman tied some flies in this fashion.

i've seen images and original flies using a single long looped section of gut as well as a long looped, tear drop fashioned, length of twisted gut . what i haven't seen is the example in the photo submitted by dave which looks like a snelled strand of gut or wire. the connection could very well be hidden in the image, behind the spinner blade. the size of the blades was also variable some very small to be used for casting and the larger ones for trolling. imagine trying to cast these things with silk lines and heavy bamboo rods etc. not my idea of enjoyable!

i wonder how big that in-line spinner and fly was...if it was huge then it may be for pike.

very interesting find.

#14 DAVEL

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 09:55 PM

Thank you Ted and Geert for your replies...I had a feeling you would bring over some good intel Ted..thank you!
But I Still up in the air on how I'm going to tie it...I'm leaning toward the lake fly one in "MOM Favorite Flies".
The only thing that's got me stumped, is the pic I showed all of you, has the red strip on the side.... it appears.
And the one in MOMs book shows red on top of white married..(lake fly version)

Can any body say for sure which is the original (oldest) version of the Parmachene Belle..,MOM?.....Lake fly or Trout fly?
I'm not tryin to split hairs..just tryin to do them right!

Thanks for all the Help!!
Dave

#15 ted patlen

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:13 PM

the mom fly has a reversed wing which had the tendency to distribute slips. if the recipe specifically calls for red "topping all" or "red stripe along the top of wing" or something like that then do it that way, if not tyers discretion.

#16 DAVEL

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:21 PM

By reversed Ted you mean tips down? Also would it be tyers discretion to tie closed or divided wings too?

Thanks
Dave

#17 catskilljohn

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 11:43 PM

Smedley's book puts the fly as first tyed in 1878, and named after Parmachenne Lake in your native state of Maine Dave. Unfortunately, he doesn't describe the dressing, only that it was tyed to imitate an actual trout fin.

I think reversed means tying the wing to point in front of the hook, then pulled over and tyed down over the body. CJ

#18 WaterWolf

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 12:17 AM

Interesting thread... trolling flies is so New England...

Dave - if you use a whole white goose for the wing then tie in red splits along the side... and whole feathre wings were not tied in reverse though the stems were pulled back and lashed down after the wing was set... I have seen Parmanchee Belles with married red and white feather strips, a white larger slip and a red split along side and a whole white goose cussette with red splits along the sides... as Teddy said tyers discretion and no right or wrong... But if you want to see an original Marbury then see below (a white larger slip and a red split along side)... However I should note that there were 2 Parmanchee Belles in this plate - and the other had reverse tied white and red slips with red on top and I don't have a pic at the moment... not to make your decision process harder Posted Image.... Importantly substituting and changing the pattern slightly was done quite often in the Orvis shop...

Just tie it and have fun Posted Image ...

Cheers
Lee

Attached File  Parmacheene Belle 700 PS DSCN0176A.jpg   252.09K   29 downloads

#19 DAVEL

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 12:44 AM

Thanks Lee!..that pic makes things a little eaiser....I THINK!!!
Great photo!...how old is that fly?...1800s?...Also Lee does that fly have any yellow body hackle...I can' tell from the photo.

Thanks again everyone for the Help!!
Dave

#20 catskilljohn

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 01:01 AM

Lee, I think there were 2 because the one you have pictured is a Parmachene Beau. I love these old photos you took, really lets you see the style of the past. CJ