Jump to content

ClassicFlyTying.com Sponsors
Hand Made Salmon Hooks
Ronn Lucas, Sr.
www.ronnlucassr.com
(503)654-0466
ronn@ronnlucassr.com

Photo

Kelson was a Fraud


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 mike townend

mike townend

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,592 posts

Posted 25 February 2012 - 09:22 PM

Hi Folks

I know quite a few of you know about the truth about Kelson. This is an article that was published last month in an antique fishing magazine. I thought you might be interested in seeing it.

Attached Files



#2 catskilljohn

catskilljohn

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 670 posts

Posted 25 February 2012 - 09:46 PM

Excellent story, and one I think of often. It seems this sort of thing happens all the time, in different sports/hobbys and wherever money is concerned its going to continue. I look up to Kelson as a God, God of the salmon anyway, regardless of his past doings, and how much would this sport lack had it not been for him?

This has been going on since the Marston/Kelson debacle, the Hidy/ Liesering saga, and in my "neck of the woods" the Jennings/Flick ordeal, Caucci's Haystack/comparadun copping... its what makes this otherwise quiet hobby exciting! It's all good, and we are wiser for it. CJ

#3 Vytas

Vytas

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,320 posts

Posted 25 February 2012 - 09:56 PM

Thanks for posting it , Mike. That's very interesting and shocking at the same time !

#4 Marc LeBlanc

Marc LeBlanc

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,204 posts

Posted 25 February 2012 - 11:33 PM

Very interesting indeed.

Thanks Mike.

Marc

#5 Frenchcaster

Frenchcaster

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 99 posts

Posted 26 February 2012 - 12:51 AM

Wow. plus ça change...

A.

#6 wsbailey

wsbailey

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 168 posts

Posted 26 February 2012 - 01:09 AM

Additionally, John Younger claimed authorship of Scrope's flies. Bill


Attached File  Autobiography_of_John_Younger.pdf.pdf   677.84K   23 downloads

#7 Mike Boyer

Mike Boyer

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 7,543 posts

Posted 26 February 2012 - 01:11 AM

Thanks, Mike. I have been aware for some time what a self promoter Kelson was, however
I wasn't aware of all the specific charges Marston leveled at him. Interesting read.

#8 WaterWolf

WaterWolf

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,596 posts

Posted 26 February 2012 - 01:45 AM

Quite amusing...thanks for posting that Mike!! Guess the politics that sometimes mars fly fishing/tying has a history as well.. Andrew I suggest you send me all that Kelson stuff - you don't want all his stuff cluttering up your house since he is obviously a fraud Posted Image Posted Image ...

Cheers
Lee

#9 Charlie Vestal

Charlie Vestal

    Lakewood, Colorado

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,252 posts

Posted 26 February 2012 - 03:21 AM

A quote from the 2012 Blue Ribbon Flies, West Yellowstone, MT, catalog --

Originality in fly tying is just undected plagiarism.

Seems to apply to Mr. Kelson but he got caught.
Chemical Engineering: Solving problems you didn't know you had, in ways you don't understand ......

#10 TJ Hall

TJ Hall

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 547 posts

Posted 26 February 2012 - 03:59 AM

love the drama of it all, would be dull without it!

#11 pork

pork

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,479 posts

Posted 26 February 2012 - 04:06 PM

Very interesting...thanks for posting this, Mike.

Here's something I never understood and, quite frankly, find ridiculous...who in their right mind would buy into the notion that salmon "grow so used to traditional salmon flies like the Jock Scott, you might as well put them in the dustbin"...??? They're migratory fish! How many times would one fish see the same traditional flies over and over again, especially back in those days of more fish and less fishing pressure? And it's not like he offered up something radically different...the Inky Boy was an incremental change, at best. It's not like he made the statement, then invented the Templedog or the Green Machine. He was trying to create buzz for himself...I get it. It seems like it worked. What baffles me that some people might have actually bought into Kelson's argument. As far as the Marston debunking thing goes, Kelson had it coming to him!

#12 angler andrew

angler andrew

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,569 posts

Posted 26 February 2012 - 07:06 PM

Not read this yet Mike,im hoping to get a copy when youve finished with.
I thought Id comment on this before reading it.

Id be amazzed if this article tells us anything we dont know about Kelso though I may be wrong,of course Kelson was Fraud if you want to use that word as theres plenty of examples of him claiming flies his own,inventing mixed wings shall I go on?

You know on the lid of my box and on the hackle bokk theres some newspaper cut outs from the Field n Stream ect,underneath some of the letters to the editor on his exhibition exploits there is often no name below and Im positive they are from Kelson himself,quite funny actually.
I actually find hin immensly readble compared to the concise writings from Hale n P.T.,man the Gazette writings are way far out compared to the salmon fly,but the talk of the laws governing the stars and keeping it in the same paragraph as fly tying is something I like.
I also thought about folk who say "they dont like the Salmon Fly because he contradicts himself to many times"well yes there are contradictions aplent Im sure but this was/is a large book and we all can appreciate how much our opinions change on tying these flies,heck I must have changed opinion countless times from when I started,why so would it be any different with him esp given that he was still fishing.

Without having read the article its hard to know the meaning of him being called a fraud,putting the away the patterns and techniques he falsy claimed to be his own its probably worth looking into what flies he did make,amount of fish he caught and folk he knew.
Personally I dont like the remark that the plates in the book are mere artists illustrations as both Land n water,Salmon fly and the Gazette woodcuts are presumably by three diferent folk and all share the same shapes and tying style,right down to small things like herl,horns ect.

Perhaps some of Kelson things I have will shed a new light on things,what I can say and Dave C could back me up on this (if he agreed with me of course)that there are some truly amazing patterns that were of his own desighn and making(Dave has seen a few)Ive since discovered the most beautiful wonderful patterns ive ever seen which were made for an exhibition in 1881 Berlin,these patterns are pretty far out and were said to be beautifully tied with slim tapered bodies,and small neat heads,Farlows were quick to get in on the act and sold his flies.

Ok im kinda going nowhere here but I guess what Im saying is,yes he was a bafoon of sorts and certainly was'nt the gentleman Traherne was but does it really matter?and could deny that The Salmon Fly was/is the best book written on the subject of Tying Salmon Flies.
I recall something from his son that said something like "if he were around today he would be disliked"and then he mentions him being good at everything he did,Cricket,Billiards,Casting champion,list go's on.

Right thats my bit done,Im just off to make a bonfire,well,wouldnt want to be caught with Fraudulent material would I? he he

Andrew.

PS not being funny about the fly patterns,some and maybe all will be revealed in a book by Dave Carne(D.Bastard)he he

Off to read it now.
another possible inductee into the slackers club

#13 angler andrew

angler andrew

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,569 posts

Posted 26 February 2012 - 07:24 PM

Ha Ha just read it Mike and its nothing we didnt already know is it? Any chance to make money and he would do it although how that makes him a fraud Im not sure? InkyBoy story we all know,and Whilst Im sure it did work well in low water theres other flies that were probably better. What I like about the Salmon Fly and Kelson his his detailed fishing exploits and how he tells us going about fishing for Salmon in what would appear to us as hopeless conditions,our summers are not like they were then,am i going over the top here? For me yes he was fraud if one wants to use that word but I think his observations on tying and fishing(esp colour of river)far outweigh his lies and money making exploits. Andrew.

PS like the article by John Buckland better as it mentions all this and his better side,a must read.
another possible inductee into the slackers club

#14 angler andrew

angler andrew

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,569 posts

Posted 26 February 2012 - 07:32 PM

Ha Ha just read it Mike and its nothing we didnt already know is it?

Any chance to make money and he would do it although how that makes him a fraud Im not sure?

InkyBoy story we all know,and Whilst Im sure it did work well in low water theres other flies that were probably better.
What I like about the Salmon Fly and Kelson his his detailed fishing exploits and how he tells us going about fishing for Salmon in what would appear to us as hopeless conditions,our summers are not like they were then,am i going over the top here?

For me yes he was fraud if one wants to use that word but I think his observations on tying and fishing(esp colour of river)far outweigh his lies and money making exploits.

Andrew.

PS like the Article by John Buckland better as it mentions all in this article and makes no bones about it,but on the otherhand he concentrates on his contribution to the world of Salmon fishing and fly tying.
PPS Does anyone have a copy of Salmon fly and have;nt read it?
another possible inductee into the slackers club

#15 angler andrew

angler andrew

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,569 posts

Posted 26 February 2012 - 07:34 PM

sfgfshgfhsgfhsg
another possible inductee into the slackers club

#16 Dave Carne

Dave Carne

    You can't aim high when hunting midgets

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 7,729 posts

Posted 26 February 2012 - 07:50 PM

Actually the Inky Boy was a VERY successful low water pattern long before AHE Wood 'invented' the style (it existed in various body colours with blue, red, yellow or green butts and heads - have seen them in a number of colours) and it was still being included as a key low water pattern (one of only about 10) when Taverner and 'Jock Scott' wrote 'Salmon Fishing' in the 30s.

As read I read more an more of his work I have developed a certain soft spot for Kelson, he can be quite self effacing on (rare) occasion - like so many famous front men of trends he WAS a plageriser and self-serving (there's no shortage of them on TV fishing programmes today and in the angling press), but he was also a key player in the huge rise in the popularity of salmon fishing and a wide range of innovations.

The fact is that many of the leading light back then were also up to the same game - claiming invention of pattern that were really invented by this or that pro dresser and named in their honour - as an example the Wilkinson (one of the oldest patterns still in wide use today - if nowadays as a shrimp) for instance was a 'collaboration' between Wilkinson and Jamie Wright - but we all know that the original is just a silver doctor with a magenta hackle instead (the blue was added later BTW).

Dx

PS I don't have a lot of time for John Buckland's views as all he does is slag off full dressed flies (despite clearly not knowing very much about how they were dressed) in his 'Bright Stream of Memory' book on the FG - there's a fair degree of him having passed sentence before he ever looked at the evidence.
A man with more materials than sense. http://www.facebook....6...1148&ref=mf

#17 angler andrew

angler andrew

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5,569 posts

Posted 26 February 2012 - 08:46 PM

Actually the Inky Boy was a VERY successful low water pattern long before AHE Wood 'invented' the style (it existed in various body colours with blue, red, yellow or green butts and heads - have seen them in a number of colours) and it was still being included as a key low water pattern (one of only about 10) when Taverner and 'Jock Scott' wrote 'Salmon Fishing' in the 30s.

As read I read more an more of his work I have developed a certain soft spot for Kelson, he can be quite self effacing on (rare) occasion - like so many famous front men of trends he WAS a plageriser and self-serving (there's no shortage of them on TV fishing programmes today and in the angling press), but he was also a key player in the huge rise in the popularity of salmon fishing and a wide range of innovations.

The fact is that many of the leading light back then were also up to the same game - claiming invention of pattern that were really invented by this or that pro dresser and named in their honour - as an example the Wilkinson (one of the oldest patterns still in wide use today - if nowadays as a shrimp) for instance was a 'collaboration' between Wilkinson and Jamie Wright - but we all know that the original is just a silver doctor with a magenta hackle instead (the blue was added later BTW).

Dx

PS I don't have a lot of time for John Buckland's views as all he does is slag off full dressed flies (despite clearly not knowing very much about how they were dressed) in his 'Bright Stream of Memory' book on the FG - there's a fair degree of him having passed sentence before he ever looked at the evidence.

Didnt know that about John Bukland,I think thats his name anyway,its the introduction in the classic library Kelson,Was going to mention Taverner myself,its clear that he likes Kelson and Crossfield Id say and Taverners way of fishing seemed very close to Kelsons with mention of going through the the pool with something Gaudy to get the fishes attention and then Kill with the standard pattern.

Id be interested to know if Salmon "fishing"has actually moved on any with the Fly,not in terms of tackle but the method and of course flies??
another possible inductee into the slackers club