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cobblers wax


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15 replies to this topic

#1 IanUK

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 03:52 PM

i have done a bit more with trying to make this wax and it made me think a bit more about what may have been used at that time i new that black shoe polish was made useing soot as its colour so i tryed useing that in the mix, i use the same basic recipe as dave carne for his which i just added the soot , i have just tried it on yellow thread for the greenwells and it has worked out very well ,the recipe is

7 parts rosin
2 parts beeswax
2 parts caster oil
1/2 of a part soot (i have used lamp black) same thing

i will try it out on a few heads to see if i will need to change anythink in the future


Ian

#2 Dave Carne

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 04:41 PM

QUOTE (IanUK @ Sep 12 2010, 11:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
i have done a bit more with trying to make this wax and it made me think a bit more about what may have been used at that time i new that black shoe polish was made useing soot as its colour so i tryed useing that in the mix, i use the same basic recipe as dave carne for his which i just added the soot , i have just tried it on yellow thread for the greenwells and it has worked out very well ,the recipe is

7 parts rosin
2 parts beeswax
2 parts caster oil
1/2 of a part soot (i have used lamp black) same thing

i will try it out on a few heads to see if i will need to change anythink in the future


Ian


Think bitumen is the key element in dark cobblers' wax - though I ain't got the recipe.
Dave
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#3 IanUK

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Posted 12 September 2010 - 06:06 PM

i,m not sure if i am right dave but i think blacklamp is used in a lot of things and i think that it was used in bitumen as well blacklamp from what i can make out is used more like a black dye as in paint and as i said it was what made black boot polish black , it made more sence to me that at that time it was used as a coloring , the black cobblers wax that i had for years was a hard wax that you had to pull the thread through fast if you did not work it in your hand ,i will make any alteration to the recipe for my own use if i think i need somethink different from what i posted , the testing that i have done up till now was the thread test foe the greenwells glory and it passed that fine and it seems tacky enouh for heads but i have not tied any yet

Ian

#4 Dave Carne

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 07:14 AM

Lamp Black is made by burning oil to smoke - ie it's oil soot and is a standard artist's pigment.

If you search for cobblers'wax you'll find Glasgow Angling Centre and various Bagpipe suppliers sell it - http://www.edinburgh...products_id=249

The only bagpipe recipe I found was as per our tying wax except using almond or olive oil in place of castor oil - however this is not cobblers' wax - as I said I'm pretty definite it is bitumen based (and all reference to wax making in Frances etc talk about it as a separate thing from the standard tying wax recipe).

Dave
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#5 arkle

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 08:53 AM

Many years ago, I bought some bitumen wax from Tom C. Savilles, It was horrible stuff to work with & I never really bothered with it. A couple of years back, someone was asking on www.ukflydressing.com about waxes & I suggested to them that they could try mixing almost any colour they wanted by using wax crayons as part of their mix. It worked perfectly.

#6 IanUK

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 09:33 AM

Dave
i have not said that this is cobblers wax as i dont think that anybody knows for a fact how it was made but i am old enough to have had and used cobblers wax and know what it was like to use ,what i have posted is as i remember it if it were not i would not have posted it ,it was not as somebody posted here that it would colour any coloured tread to black if it was it would not have been used on yellow thread to give the olive colour , if you look under lampblack it is made as you said but it is also one type of soot , soot is not somethink that is as easy to get now as it was because we dont use coal at home as we used to , if you look under bitumen what i found was that it is dark brown in colour but i have not found what was used to make it black and as i said i was told it was soot , soot his used in so many things like car tires to colour cement black and to many more to list , when i asked myself what may have been used at that time this is what i came up with as it was used for so many other things then, when you look at tying wax there has always been two the standed wax that will not color the materials you put on your hook and cobblers wax which i can only think of colouring the thread for the greenwells glory , also think about a cobbler working at that time he would have made his own materials to use for his job he would have made boot polish and wax and because we know soot would have been used to make black polish why not use it in the wax as it would be going onto the same product aslo ask yourself knowing how poor they may have been ,they would have used what was available to them at no cost ,the recipe that i gave i will alter for my use as i have said the same way that i believe they did then

Ian

#7 IanUK

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 12:34 PM

update on my last post

i have just tried the wax again today after leaving it in water over night (how i store it) i left a small peace out for 10 min and tried it on thread when soft it will cover the thread totally and is very tacky it should be very good for heads , i will make a change to the recipe and make some more soon as i want to try to keep it harder as it was for me yesterday for the greenwells as it worked very well then but not when it soften's ,if any of you guys in the uk would like to try it if you pm your address to me i will send you some to try


Ian

#8 arkle

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 07:19 PM

Ian, if you're going to the BFFI, call in to the UKFD stand & have a word with Tango about wax. He started & runs the site & is the man to see about wax mixes as it was him I gave the details to. He now supplies it to several retailers over here & will give a freebie as well as plenty of help & advice.

#9 IanUK

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Posted 13 September 2010 - 08:45 PM

Arkle
i,m not sure if i will be able to go yet but if i go i will stop in and talk to him
thanks

Ian

#10 sky-pilot

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 08:03 AM

Hi, i use the same recipe as you. I am satisfied with it but i guess the ultra sticky wax is something many don't like to use because its easy to mess up the fly if we don't clean our hands often when we tie. I compared the strength with sticky wax and a more hard wax and its not any weaker. How i did it was to tie in the gut on two flies to the butt, one with sticky and one with hard. Gut didn't slip on any of the flies when i tested em.
All the best

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#11 IanUK

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 08:39 AM

sky-pilot

i know what you mean about tacky wax and know that on the greenwells glory the old cobblers wax was a hard wax that when you pulled the thread through it only covered the thread lightly with black to make the olive so i will alter the recipe i gave untill i get a harder wax and test it then ,with the old cobblers wax being a very hard wax it ment that even when worked in the hand to soften it would not have helped to get the thread going well to form a nice head as it was not sticky enough i still think you need the tacky wax to help you to do that ,i am sure that they did somethink to the cobblers wax then to help them do the heads

Ian

#12 Dave Carne

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 08:57 AM

QUOTE (IanUK @ Sep 14 2010, 04:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
sky-pilot

i know what you mean about tacky wax and know that on the greenwells glory the old cobblers wax was a hard wax that when you pulled the thread through it only covered the thread lightly with black to make the olive so i will alter the recipe i gave untill i get a harder wax and test it then ,with the old cobblers wax being a very hard wax it ment that even when worked in the hand to soften it would not have helped to get the thread going well to form a nice head as it was not sticky enough i still think you need the tacky wax to help you to do that ,i am sure that they did somethink to the cobblers wax then to help them do the heads

Ian


It says in Francis Francis that you should work in a little tallow (rendered meat fat) to soften it if it's too hard.
Dave
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#13 IanUK

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Posted 14 September 2010 - 09:39 AM

thanks dave that explains a lot as to how it was done as it has always bugged me has to what they did

Ian

#14 IanUK

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 09:52 AM

here is the recipe for the greenwells hard wax

4 parts (40g) rosin
2 parts (20g) beeswax
1/4 tsp lampblack

the colour tread to use is primrose


Ian

#15 Dave Carne

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 10:01 AM

QUOTE (IanUK @ Sep 18 2010, 05:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
here is the recipe for the greenwells hard wax

4 parts (40g) rosin
2 parts (20g) beeswax
1/4 tsp lampblack

the colour tread to use is primrose


Ian


Without a lubricant in it you'll probably have something too hard and sticky.
Dave
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#16 IanUK

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 02:16 PM

Dave
its a hard wax that you pull the tread through with you pulling it through you heat up the thread and it melts the wax on to the thread ,this is the way that cobblers wax was put onto the thread you could not stop pulling it through because if you did it would break the thread if you started to pull it through again it would also do the same if you pulled it through slowly it would also brake , when useing cobblers wax you only waxed enough thread that you would use, these recipe's as i said before you should alter them to what you want , the reason i did not add a lubricant was i wanted it hard as it was and also if to soft you will get to much colour on to the thread ,what i have posted puts just the right amount on to the thread to give a light shade of olive to it put to much lampblack in and it will be to dark

Ian