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mentor tutorial,, underbody and tag


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35 replies to this topic

#21 Bud Guidry

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 01:17 PM

josh, most all flies that i know of or that are made in todays world have a tapered tag. i've seen and have some old classic flies that don't seem to be tapered though. the modern tyers have grown accustomed to pleasing the eye, it looks much better when the taper begins at the tip and works it way thru the body of the fly

agree with carne, in effect, this technique of underbodies can be done in which ever way pleases you or is accomadating to the style of fly your trying to tie, it's the tyers choice to shape the underbody as he chooses. when i first began tying these underbodies, i used the style more appropraite to classics, smaller ahead of the tag, building up thru the midbody then hardly any thread at the head, this shape i've pictured here evoloved when i became more interested in tying artistic flies, it matches the artistic fly well but now i do tie classics with this same underbody, thread control is the key to not building up bulk at the material tie in points, i always use the 5 and three method or close to it, attach materials using 5 wraps and remove three before continuing with other materials or simple to advance the thread. if you look closer at my finished flies you'll never see a bump or difference in body section sizes behind or ahead of a butt. everything has a clean tapered look. hence, thread control so as not to build up bulk where it's not needed

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#22 Bud Guidry

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 01:19 PM

Just a quickie. I'm no expert but I do use Bud's method for building underbodies. If you use flat nose pliers directly on the underbody (to compress tinsel after tie-in etc.) then pays to make sure that there are no sharp edges on the jaws. It's really easy to squeeze hard and cut thread, potentially have to start over or at least have to wrap more to hide frayed edges.


you nailed it, be very careful with the kind of pliers you use, i use the small black needle nose pliers mclain sells right out the package. infact i have three and they have all been excellent when using them to compress materials and not cut thru thread fibers

RAmidbuck.GIF
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#23 dgotz

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 03:14 PM

Bud: A perfectly timed SBS on one of the essential skills necessary to tie at this level. Thanks

gotz

#24 terminator

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 03:56 PM

Big thanks for this! This was really good SBS and helped me a lot!!

#25 lukas

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 04:21 PM

Enjoyed that lovely there Bud, and that was my question how do you tie in and conceal your tinsel for a tinsel rib or body
do you tie it in with rib under butt area then apply butt as in Hales book, or as above postertie in and flatten with pliers , or another way
Better watch we will have you doing a full sbs
John
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#26 Bud Guidry

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 04:27 PM

i strip the metal tensil off the core. on larger tensils they may have three core threads, i cut two leaving only one tinsel core thread. i tie it in ahead of the butt. it leaves no bulk at all. all my materials are tied in ahead of the butt then the thread is moved forward using edge to edge wraps to begin wrapping silk. tonight i'll do a few pics on what i do at this point moving forward to the first body section. again the pliers are used to compress any and all bumps that may occur before moving forward, later with pics tonight

RAmidbuck.GIF
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#27 TJ Hall

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 06:00 PM

Great tutorial Bud!!!

#28 Ronn Lucas

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 08:14 PM

Excellent lesson Bud!
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Ronn


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#29 Mike Boyer

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 12:49 AM

Out of the weeds here. To JoshJag, I tie mostly smaller fies (2-3/0), and I never start the underbody
taper (shown brilliantly by Bud) until after tag and/or butt. I don't find it necessary on smaller flies.

#30 JoshJag

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 12:58 AM

Thanks Bud for the explanation....makes a lot of sense. And Mike, I can understand your theory as well. A smaller fly would be harder to show a nice taper throughout the body of the fly.

Im excited to try this technique.

#31 spectralspider

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 05:47 AM

This was great thanks Bud

#32 Bud Guidry

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 08:20 AM

ok speyfly heres what you asked for

a piece of gut is cut to lenght then i form a loop with a whipfinish tool and plier. i then put this up against the taper of the hook and cut it to lenght. i untwist the two strand gut and cut each individual strand a different lenght so it can form itself to the taper of the hook, i then twist it back, lay it under the hook and tie it in. before i tie it on i smash the tips with my teeth, i know (ukkk) but i found it's the best way to do it. i use the same application weather i'm doing a 2 or 3 stand twisted gut

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RAmidbuck.GIF
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#33 Bud Guidry

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 08:27 AM

another student asked how i attatch the tinsel to the body of the fly

most tinsels are composed of a core. i've found some with one two or three stands of thread, whichever the case i remove all but one. this is tied in ahead of the butt . i leave enough lenght to reach the next butt on the fly if doing a multiple section fly. the tinsel is then simply tied on and the thread is advanced using edge to edge wraps to the next butt section where the silk will be tied on and wrapped. this technique leaves no evidence that anything is tied in on the back side of the fly. you see no bumps or lumps

Attached Files


RAmidbuck.GIF
MY FLY PATTERN DATABASE

 

FOUNDER AND PRESIDENT OF THE OFFICIAL CLASSICS PAGE SLACKERS CLUB
HONORARY WINNER OF THE 2011 BIGGEST SLACKER AWARD

http://flyfishline.com/art_gallery2.php

My mind belongs to this forum
My heart belongs to my family
My soul belongs to my flies


#34 lukas

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 09:05 PM

Good man Bud similar to how i tie in oval material, think what i meant was flat metalic plate tinsel for tinsel body sorry for the confusion
John
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#35 steely34

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:43 PM

Bud - excellent descriptions and images explaining something I have been doing wrong for a long time. Sincerely appreciate this.

Tom
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#36 jlevine

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 06:40 PM

Bud you rule! This is just great and another piece of divine intervention for me. This is much more simple then the method I have been using and makes much smoother transitions in my opinion. Giving her a go on the next fly I try.

Thanks again as this will serve as great guidance,

Judd