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mentor tutorial,, underbody and tag


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#1 Bud Guidry

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 04:06 AM

i begin by laying a layer of thread over the area the gut will be tied in using 70 denier UTC thread

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#2 Bud Guidry

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 04:11 AM

the gut is measured to length, i seperate the individual gut fibers and cut them in staggered lengths, the two longest lenghts are compressed to remove the bulk where the gut finishes into the taper of the hook. the gut is then tied on under the hook, i then use a small fine needle nose plier to compress any bumps or lumps creating a transition from gut to hook shank as mooth as possible

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#3 Bud Guidry

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 04:16 AM

at this point i bring the thread to a point where the tip will be tyed in using edge to edge wraps. once i reach that point the tip is tied in

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#4 Bud Guidry

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 04:22 AM

thread is agin brought forward and replaced using 140 denier UTC thread. moving the thread back to the tag area again using edge to edge wraps until i reach a point where direction change will occur

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#5 Bud Guidry

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 04:29 AM

heres the trick to make a smooth change of direction with the thread leaving a smooth surface, as i begin making that first wrap towards the tip. the bobbin is spun to remove all thread twist, i then begin making the first wrap wiggling the thread back and forth and it flattens perfectly, move towards the tip making three or four wraps then begin moving forward do not keep removing twist from thread, it will twist itself again as you make wraps. you can control the thread to cover the the area you removed the twist. as you move forward the thread twist itself and begins building bulk again because of it's enlarged diameter. bring the thread just behind the head area and do the same to change direction back to the tag area, you can see in the pic how it makes a smooth transition

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#6 Speyfly89

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 04:29 AM

thanks bud
"The swing is the thing, the tug is the drug" unknown source

Kevin

#7 Bud Guidry

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 04:33 AM

i keep going back and forth until the desired shape and size your trying to achieve, using the same method of flattening the thread at each change of direction

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#8 Bud Guidry

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 04:38 AM

once the shape is achived i bring the 140 denier to the head area, replace it with 70 denier and burnsh the complete underbody. i use alot of pressure to do this first burnish. the body will be fairly glass smooth but a finale layer of 70 denier to the silk tie in place and a second burnish finishes the trick, the underbody is then as hard as a rock and glass smooth giving you a beautiful smooth foundation to wrap silk on

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#9 Bud Guidry

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 04:46 AM

when the body is complete i bring the 70 denier thread to a point i will tie in the silk to build the tag, i stop making wraps just forward of the barb point, you can get this mark by letting your bobbin hang down. from this point i tie in the silk. the silk is wrapped using the same technique i use to flatten the thread, wiggling the silk back and forth flattens it. i go to the tip then back to the tie in point with the silk, once the silk is tied i i burnish it using the same stone i use to burnish the thread

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#10 Bud Guidry

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 04:49 AM

the tail is then tied in , i compress the racus using the same needle nose pliers before tying it in, removing as much bulk to this area as possible, i use this plier in all areas i can during the tying process, compressing as much as possible to smooth areas and remove any lumps, bumps or bulk as i can. the herl is then tied in and the underbody and tag are complete

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#11 Bud Guidry

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 04:55 AM

you have to keep in mind, the foundation you begin laying materials on is a key ingrediant to have smooth silk work. it is a key element to building nice flies. spending the little extra time to do these things goes a long way. this setup or technique i use, once you become profient at wrapping thread, can be done in 5 or 6 minutes. when i began developing this style of underbody, things moved slowly, once i honed my skill at making edge to edge thread wraps i madce underbodies in a blink. at this point in my tying i can actually watch tv while making these wraps. sorta like learnign to type without looking at the keys hope this helps some of you. it was time i put this up. years have gone by and i can't give you numbers on how many times people have asked for an explaination of this style of underbodies so here it is. instead of explaining this another thousands time i can pin this later so people can simple go the thread and do it themselves\

edit.sorry for a couple of unfocused pics, i was trying to hold the camera using my left hand and things got a little shaky. if you can't see any sequence clearly let me know by pm and i'll try to get another clearer pic

RAmidbuck.GIF
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#12 BSH

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 06:05 AM

Many thanks, Bud! I knew there is not so many difficulties in doing underbody, only some attention and patience. My big problem in tag was to create smooth transition between tip of tinsel and floss. Some I tied were not bad, some I re-tied several times. I will certainly repeat all the sequence as you showing in your tutorial.
BTW on some flies, where the body is to be tied of fur or mohair I tie the underbody using white floss or UNI-stretch. But in both cases I burnishing it with the glass stick.

Cheers,
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#13 Bud Guidry

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 06:47 AM

good job, if anyone has any questions please post here. there are many ways of doing underbodies, tyers develope what works best for them, this is only my way of doing things, it works for me and it's quick

RAmidbuck.GIF
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#14 geraldsherbrook

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 07:00 AM

Dear BUD,

This will certainly explain a whole lots of things for 'every ONE' ! (yes everyone...read from 'starter' to 'more advanced' classic and artistic salmon flytyers !)

YOU did a marvellous 'mentor tutorial'

With lots of respect for the 'old boy' ! (hahahaha...but my talk is serious !)

Geert
Voted Sexiest Fly Tyer for 2013

#15 StuartHardyBpc

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 07:39 AM

Wonderfully informative! It shows people like me the 'detail' they strive for!

#16 lucaseabass

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 07:43 AM

Hi Bud,
superlative sbs. I generally prepare the underbody and then I fix the tinsel for the tag, but I suppose your way is better to "keep undercontrol" that part over which the silk will be wrapped to complete the tag. For sure I will use your technique to tie my next fly.
Many thanks!
Luca

#17 Dave Carne

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 07:51 AM

Great tutorial - one comment to add; in tying classics normally you aim to keep the area that will be used for winging etc completely bare of thread until you have to cover it (a single layer as a foundation for the wing), this is especially important when using silk where its bulk means you cannot afford any unnecessary thread wraps.
Dx

#18 PaulR

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 08:47 AM

Nice job Bud! PaulR

#19 JoshJag

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 12:19 PM

Thanks Bud, that is exactly what i was looking for. I have tried to read thru Michael R's books and others but it doesn't explain it to that detail. Fantastic!

Q. With all flies, is the tag aways tapered with the underbody? or are there some tapers start after the herl?

Josh

#20 newtothis

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Posted 09 July 2012 - 01:14 PM

Just a quickie. I'm no expert but I do use Bud's method for building underbodies. If you use flat nose pliers directly on the underbody (to compress tinsel after tie-in etc.) then pays to make sure that there are no sharp edges on the jaws. It's really easy to squeeze hard and cut thread, potentially have to start over or at least have to wrap more to hide frayed edges.