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DISSECTING A VINTAGE FLY


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#1 flyryan

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 10:23 PM

ok so some will abhor this and some will love this but i always wanted to do it and i learned some interesting things along the way

i presumed it to be a popham although not exactly i couldnt find a description that matched this one exactly but then again it and the crow were supposed to have some local variations

the wool head was very sparse on the thread and there were 6 or 7 turns they were not sequential they started tight to the wing but some wraps went back over previous ones to make the shape they were also well stuck down so were probably laid on lots of wax

the wing had been finished off with 6 or 7 tight turns half hitched and soaked in varnish or something the loose ends were left sticking out a few mm and the wool head covered them i believe the fly was finished at the wing and left to dry before the wool was added as the thread was not continuous from wing binding to wool dubbing and was a different sort

taking the wing apart showed it had been put on in 4 parts a bunch of bustard first( left and right strips tied in at same time) then the near wing, the far wing and then a bunch of bustard over all

the main wing bunches comprised 2 layers of slips sort of married together the longer stuff on the inside and the shorter less adhering fibres to the outside like the tippet and lemon wood duck which were above the swan (blue yellow orange)

the hackle had been doubled

the veilings were tied in after the ostrich butts ie over the top of them and there was a but right behind the hackle there were 4 crow at the 1st and 2nd butts and 5 at the front one they were tied in at different points around the shank to envelope it rather than as back to back pairs the stems were left very long and had been stripped

the true colour of the ribs was evident on the undersides as the outsides tarnished the tag and 1st and 2nd were all silver and the 3rd gold the silk was heavy stuff and had been laid onto heavily waxed turns of thread to which it was well stuck on the under layer , silk was wrapped back then forwards over the 1st layer

ostrich herl buts seem to have had one side of the flue stripped and there were quite a few wraps

there were several half hitches as the tying thread was unravelled

tail and tail veiling were attached by 3 or 4 turns

the tag was a surprise to me there was no tying thread underlying it instead the tinsel had been wrapped over itself as i would start the tying silk on a hook and only when it reached the tying off point did the tyer wrap tying thread over it to catch it in, i tried this it is not that easy as tinsel is slippy but creates a tidy slim tag

the gut was sharply taperd and wrapped tight in touching turns, near the eye i came across a number of unusual double thread wraps or hitches or something i was at a loss to explain their use

the thread had been started off about 5 mm back from the front of the hook and once caught the loop was placed under and wrappin commenced backwards

hope this is of some interest and i dont get too much hate mail

I HAVE NOW ADDED THESE AND OTHER PICTURES AS A SLIDESHOW ON MY WEBSITE
http://www.ryansflie...lbumid=13589546

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#2 flyryan

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 10:26 PM

i then reused the hook made some IC subs and reconstructed the fly sort of, it was not an attempt to carbon copy but to use some of the things i had learned

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Ryan Houston

 

to see the rest of the flies i have tied just visit  facebook page and browse my photos or galleries

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#3 flyryan

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 10:27 PM

heres a link to another dissection of a jock scott this time whats interesting here is the whole wing tied on at once and cut flat then the head created by some sort of head cement over that and a wool head wound into that probably still wet by how hard it was to get it off

other interesting points are the tie in positions of silk and tinsels and also the hackle tied in at the front of the body section but the very heavy floss is then used to bind down tinsels and hackles to whaere we are accustomed to having them start the heavy silk also covers up and evens out the uneveness of the tying below ie the gut etc its like self leveling mortar

the tinsels and silks were tied in at about 1/4 to 1/3 the way up a section i guess to reduce bulk at the rears and therefore create a taper as the silk went back and then forwards

again i find a vintage fly with no tying silk below the tip tinsel i think this is because they didnt have as fine a thread as we do now but i have tried to do this and i promise you it aint easy

all the pictures are in the link below


http://s1186.photobu...mview=slideshow

Attached Files


Ryan Houston

 

to see the rest of the flies i have tied just visit  facebook page and browse my photos or galleries

https://www.facebook.com/Classic-FLIES-A-Z-766762363375794/

 

https://youtu.be/g8qFgPJD00c

 

https://www.facebook.com/RyanHoustonSalmonTroutAndPikeFlies?ref=hl


#4 Bud Guidry

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 10:41 PM

ryan, are you nuts, don't say you found varnish soaked into the wing tie in point on this forum, you'll be banished forever for making such a suggestion that this technique was used to tie flies so long ago


Bud

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#5 flyryan

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 10:55 PM

this thing would have survived a bomb there was a ton of wax a load of half hitches and the wing was half hitched and varnished after each bunch was tied in the stubbs were also left long and the wool head covered them not the nice shaping we might strive for now the crow had anything up to 10 mm of stalk forwards under the continuing dressing these things were made to be fished and to last

Ryan Houston

 

to see the rest of the flies i have tied just visit  facebook page and browse my photos or galleries

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#6 flyryan

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 10:59 PM

QUOTE (Bud Guidry @ Jul 20 2009, 11:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
ryan, are you nuts, don't say you found varnish soaked into the wing tie in point on this forum, you'll be banished forever for making such a suggestion that this technique was used to tie flies so long ago


Bud
there was no varnish extending back into the wing but the tie in and forwards seemed to have been fair enough

Ryan Houston

 

to see the rest of the flies i have tied just visit  facebook page and browse my photos or galleries

https://www.facebook.com/Classic-FLIES-A-Z-766762363375794/

 

https://youtu.be/g8qFgPJD00c

 

https://www.facebook.com/RyanHoustonSalmonTroutAndPikeFlies?ref=hl


#7 flyryan

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 11:02 PM

i forgot to mention the blue and gold macaw horns i think they both came from one side of the same feather one was upside down to maintain the curve inwards

Ryan Houston

 

to see the rest of the flies i have tied just visit  facebook page and browse my photos or galleries

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https://youtu.be/g8qFgPJD00c

 

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#8 flykid

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 11:08 PM

That's awesome! So the veilings were tied in after the ostrich butts. Interesting construction on the fly. I think it's cool to study the way stuff is put together. Plus you get some great hooks and IC!
Alex Hayes

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#9 sky-pilot

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 11:15 PM

FANTASTIC INFORMATION. Thanks a lot.
All the best

Kjell-Ove


http://www.ronnlucassr.com/karlsen.htm
winner of the 2012 sexiest fly tyer award

#10 Bruce Derington

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Posted 20 July 2009 - 11:55 PM

Thanks for showing this breakdown, nice post

#11 JustWondering

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 12:07 AM

Nice, thorough job. You must be a doctor...

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#12 Mike Boyer

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 12:52 AM

This should be pinned. Thanks alot for all the photos and info, Ryan. I have some oldies from Norway I haven't dared to touch.

#13 kilchis

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 01:22 AM

Flyryan: Amazing that you were able to do all this. And lucid explanations! Well Done indeed! Could you possibly shrink your pics to 300kb's-500kb's? Us dialup users have a heck of a time with those MB pics sizes. Wonderful job here. Valueable information!
Dave P

#14 Peter Kealey

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 01:24 AM

Very interesting study indeed. Thanks for posting. It's nice to see some of the techniques exploded. Imagine anyone putting varnish on the wing tie in point blink.gif I wonder what they would have done with Superglue back then if it was available rolleyes.gif

And yes I know it's after 2 in the morning Gallbladder playing up again.

Cheers Pete smile.gif



#15 shezli

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 01:54 AM

This is amazing.
Thank you so much for sharing this.

Seumas Chong-To Li McGrath (AKA SheZ)

#16 JWD

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 02:34 AM

Ryan, fascinating!! Thanks so much for sharing that with us. Like looking at an archaeology program on Discovery! Not only informative, but with those long stems no fear being able to re-use the crow!! I laso like your re-creation. I admire how you tie so well so fast.

-Jeff

I agree, should be pinned!

#17 Bud Guidry

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 03:26 AM

i leave it here for awhile and when it starts heading down i'll pin it

Bud

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#18 flyryan

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 07:41 AM

QUOTE (JustWondering @ Jul 21 2009, 01:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Nice, thorough job. You must be a doctor...

A veterinarian

Ryan Houston

 

to see the rest of the flies i have tied just visit  facebook page and browse my photos or galleries

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#19 James Daly

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 12:36 PM

QUOTE (flyryan @ Jul 20 2009, 06:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
the veilings were tied in after the ostrich butts ie over the top of them.....................

...........................there were several half hitches as the tying thread was unravelled............................

tail and tail veiling were attached by 3 or 4 turns



Ryan,
Great work! Seems to me, the dresser was a highly skilled hand tyer. Those limited turns, wax, etc. says it all. If you read Blacker, the description for his Specimen of a Gaudy fly states to tie the veilings in after the butts. It and the Popham are strikingly similar. Great step by step. -Jamie
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#20 scottishsalmon

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Posted 22 July 2009 - 08:38 AM

QUOTE (flyryan @ Jul 20 2009, 11:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
the tag was a surprise to me there was no tying thread underlying it instead the tinsel had been wrapped over itself as i would start the tying silk on a hook and only when it reached the tying off point did the tyer wrap tying thread over it to catch it in, i tried this it is not that easy as tinsel is slippy but creates a tidy slim tag


Sounds a lot like the way Crosfield ties - extract from article attached - whole thing on "cool stuff" page on www.feathersfliesandphantoms.co.uk

Attached File  CF5.JPG   54.07K   109 downloads


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