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Understanding Classic Proportions


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26 replies to this topic

#21 old fart

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 02:36 PM

BIG OOOPs I've just remembered a very important book that some of you will think rather odd but bear with me.James Waltham The Francis Francis collection.
This is an important book not for the images,yuck! but for the older recipes and MOST importantly the recipes give the suggested SIZE of the flies used.This together with the comparison scales in the back will let you know what size flies were used in fishing.
You are recreating old patterns aren't you?
My library has long gone now but I can remember a quote along the lines of: young rock bands,if they didn't play well they played LOUD. Some flydressers use hooks of sizes that were never used in the fishing context,let alone having access to materials that would FIT the hook.
TTFN
Terry

#22 Dave Carne

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 07:53 PM

Agreed, though the hook sizes are included in Francis Francis itself. By the way beware some of the non-pattern info in the book coz it's crap ('blue' jay DOES NOT mean american blue jay for instance).
Dx

#23 angler andrew

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 03:35 AM

BIG OOOPs I've just remembered a very important book that some of you will think rather odd but bear with me.James Waltham The Francis Francis collection.
This is an important book not for the images,yuck! but for the older recipes and MOST importantly the recipes give the suggested SIZE of the flies used.This together with the comparison scales in the back will let you know what size flies were used in fishing.
You are recreating old patterns aren't you?
My library has long gone now but I can remember a quote along the lines of: young rock bands,if they didn't play well they played LOUD. Some flydressers use hooks of sizes that were never used in the fishing context,let alone having access to materials that would FIT the hook.
TTFN
Terry

Old Fart(Old Fart at play by Beefheart is an all time classic)youspeak alot a sense,not to say large flies were never used but in general terms and going off my Kelson notes where he actually drew a line stating size of hook and oddly enough a size system for toppings,size two(that is two sizes down from 1/0) is the overall size for these complicated Kelson patterns with everything in the wing one can think of.

Think of a knee cap or Penpergym Pet dressed on a 5/0 the materials and colours would just get lost,Ive not read francis francis but I actually really like the plates,the Snow Fly looks mega,lots of good patterns like you say.
On the subject of misnomers Id like to know where the term "Kelson Wing"came from for repeated bands of colour?ive only had a copy of Kelson for the last few months but nowhere can I find anything approaching this,Ive found a referance in Taverner to the "swirly ice cream colours"in a wing but I dont think he attributes it to anyone.
Whats this got to do with hook size you may ask?well maybe the wall hanger trend of tying large just lended itself to building wings this way.

Good topic.

Andrew.
another possible inductee into the slackers club

#24 dave08

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 02:49 PM

i think the important thing here is if the fly looks good to you.even john states in his website his measurements are based on his style and are a general reference and you should tie your fly the way YOU like it.
i do think his references are a good starting point.
but if we all followed any strict rules we wouldn't have so many artistic flies that we see today.
David Elzea

#25 Swingwet

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 11:10 PM

Is there such a thing as "Proper" proportion in Fly Tying?

If it's for the fish then there proportions that absolutely need to be adhered to for it to fish properly and not flip-flop all over.

If it's for display then ask Picasso or Botacelli what the "PROPER" result should be.Don't attempt another fly until you here back from one of them.

#26 billtiesflies

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Posted 09 May 2012 - 11:45 PM

Hi there Pete, great thread and I see that my old post gotten dug up and reposted. I stand by those thoughts and will also say that sometimes you can change those measurements to alter the look of a fly, if you are looking for a particuar wing shape. I don't believe there is any set rule, especially if you not concerned with how the fly will perform in the water. Develop you own style and what looks good to you. you have studied other tiers flies, choose one that you like and go with it. I have seen a lot of antique salmon flies and depending on the pattern or the hook, the tail length and shape varied; of course looking at antiques, those tails have changed shape from when they were made. But the actual length has not, so look at that closely. Hope this helps?

#27 Robert Verkerk

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Posted 09 March 2013 - 10:54 PM

This is an excellent topic for me. I've just posted a few flies, and it turns out that all proportions are wrong about them. These equations here, will help me put things into perspective.

 

Thanks!