11 replies to this topic

[SmallieHunter]

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[Ronn Lucas]

Such pretty trinkets Bud!!! Great article!

[Redleg]

I can see the grandkids one day... why did grandpa collect bald birds?

[rabbitangler]

As a novice at this game what are the birds in the article, I assume the top is a chatterer and the toucans but the others?

[TroutBum]

Excellent article, Bud!

[Harold Ray]

I really enjoyed the article, plus it brought up and emphasized an area in flytying that I had wondered and worried about, the depletion of the exotic bird populations. Unfortunately, many of the wild bird species are in decline. Somewhere along the line, they reach a point at which they can no longer maintain the population at a survival level, and they become extint.

In veterinary medicine, I treat many unusual and exotic parrots. In the past, most were caught in their native habitat and shipped to the U.S. for sale as pets. wild-caught birds seldom if ever make acceptable pets, and tremendous number died in transit. Now, nearly 100% of the birds I see are borne and bred here in the U.S. on large, and sometimes small, avian breeding facilities. Over a span of 30 or so years we have learned to do this well, and we are highly successful.

Why cn the same concept apply to the production of the feathers and skins used in flytying, or is this already done in the United Staes or other countries? There is always a learning curve for production, but once conquered, you have an unending stream of feathers and skins. I know many raise exotic pheasants, chickens, some parrots, and others for their feathers, either through feather collection or sacrifice and skin production. How about the much more exotic, has anyone tried those, or are most or all killed in the jungles and rain forests of the world and shipped to flytyers here and abroad? If that's the case, tying flies results in far too high a loss on the world's animal and bird populations.

I think the flytying world should be proactive, working on ways to produce the desired feathers without destroying the birds that produce the feathers many covet so much. Alternatives, as mentioned in the article, should be consired, adopted and used by tyers rather than purchasing skins and feathers that result in continued damag to the species that are least able to recover from the harvest stress.

Ray

[Ronn Lucas]

Ray, I think the numbers of wild birds that are killed these days for tying purposes is very, very small and those that are, generally aren't endangered. Most of our exotic stuff comes from where you described, museums, zoos and of course private breeders. Add to that the fact that some of the most sought after exotics aren't endangered, they are just hard to get to or raise in captivity. If it were possible to raise say "Indian Crow" in captivity and in numbers that would allow the harvest for feathers for tying when they are going for a couple thousand $$$ per bird, someone would be doing it. Actually, the feathers we use in tying the fully dressed flies is a very small number since even worldwide, there is only a handful of tyers using them.

[willowhead]

Nice article Bud, although i have to differ in one respect. Where you talk about not panicing if you can't find a certain material because you'll certantly find it in the future........well, i say.......if you find something and you can afford it.......GET IT, .......you may NEVER see it again. In other words, ......if you snoose, you loose. Keep up the good work. mark

[Shawn Davis]

That was a nice article, Bud.

Salmon fly tying need not be terribly expensive or environmentally irresponsible to get involved with. As long as you aren't interested in tying to a strict code of traditional authenticity, there are many perfectly good substitutes available. In fact, in many cases there are "substitutes" of such good quality that they shouldn't even be termed such. I am not at all bashful about my use of relatively common materials in flies that I think are of very high quality - I don't call anything a substitute, I merely tell people exactly what it is and let their eye decide whether the material is the right choice.

As for exotics without substitutes, flytiers often have themselves to blame for the high prices - supply and demand dictate that an item is worth what people are willing to pay for it. If you're willing to pay $150 for a jungle cock skin, then someone will be sure to sell it to you for that price, even if the bird only cost them $2 to raise. Only when flytiers decide not to pay exorbitant prices will the prices become reasonable. But when we feel we absolutely must have something and won't take no for an answer, there will be people waiting in line to take advantage of us.

-Shawn

[dave08]

i am fairly new to this forum and there is alot of criticism here on the flies tied to help other tiers.
but one thing i have noticed is very little if any emphasis on using exotic materials.which helps take the pressure off tiers of "needing" these materials to tie authentic flies.
you will hear your veiling is too short or too long or is sitting 1/64 of an inch too high,but never "you really should be using toucan if you want to tie an authentic jock scott".

[dave08]

one thing i feel i have to applaud dave carne.who is an experienced,skilled tyer who seems to be well respected.
there was a chatterer fly and he commented that he felt it was a waste of a valuable resource.(or something to that nature)
this isn't meant to criticize the tyer who's fly he was refering to(i guess,as it turned out, these were damage feathers or he wouldn't have used them)and i don't want offend or take sides with anyone.

my point is it is nice to see respected tyers like him voicing there opinion on rare materials and trying to help keep others aware of these things.it helps to instill it's ok to use subs or alternative material.

[Robert Verkerk]

A producer of tubeflies, here in Norway, has his factory in Thailand. I met him one day, and we had a conversation about exotic birds and the importance of regulation and certifying. What he told me about the jungle cock eyes on his factory's flies, was alarming. What's worse, is that this guy knows about the corrupted way these feathers come about, and doesn't care about it. Certification has no effect when the countries where the birds come from, don't effectively enforce the law.

One thing I appreciate on this forum, is that the members here, appreciate the use to subs, rather than the original material.