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That bare shank behind the eye


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#1 overmywaders

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 06:39 PM

I have always thought that the bare shank left behind the eye on a classic Catskill dry was for the use of the Turle knot. However, in reviewing some knots I noticed that many of the most popular FFing knots of the 1940's were of the jam type behind the eye. The advantage of such knots is the tippet comes straight from the hook shank, forcing the dry fly to cock properly on the water. Other knots, which are not fastened behind the eye,  can pivot anywhere on the eye.

Here is a selection from "The Field Book of Freshwater Angling", John Alden Knight, Putnam,1944:

Knots_cropped_GC_Cont_900px_8293_HDR.jpg
 

Personally, I have always used the Turle knot for up-eye and down-eye flies; but I might try the Wood knot this season.

Preferences?

 

 

 



#2 Dale A. Darling

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 08:19 PM

I use an improved clinch knit with either 5 or 6 turns. Except for tarpon.
Dale "Fly fishing: a pleasantly addictive affliction"

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#3 JoshP

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Posted 10 April 2017 - 10:52 PM

Ditto what Dale said. Although I'm definitely going to try the turle this year.

#4 overmywaders

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 01:26 AM

I use the improved clinch on ring-eye flies (the Turle doesn't seem to work on ring-eye flies) and on large flies with a small tippet. When using 5x and a long tippet to get the max action from a floating #8 Muddler, the improved clinch works, the Turle doesn't... for me anyway.

 



#5 ted patlen

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 03:44 AM

i like a variation of the jam knot...not sure of it's name.   someone told me it's a fisherman's knot, someone else told me the orvis knot...whatever it is  it has worked for myself...

 

for a open looped knot i use what i think is called the Homer Rhodes open loop knot.  the tag end of the line faces the fly making the knot a lot less likely to catch weeds or such.  i use this mostly for big flies, bass bugs and in the salt...

 

I'm a bit intrigued how people tye knots...how many turns for a specific knot?  different knots for different eyes on hooks and different knots for different lines

 

same for leaders and tippets...barrel, double surgeon, triple surgeon,   how about loops?  

 

and i could never understand how some people refuse to use two different leader materials only one brand.  do they weaken the knots because you mix ...lets say maxima and rio?   

 

love this styff



#6 overmywaders

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 02:28 PM

Interesting thought - "do they weaken the knots because you mix ...lets say maxima and rio?"

I think it is possible that the harder Nylon, Maxima, might cut into the softer Nylon. One of these days I'll set up my tension tester, good for up to 2200 Newtons, and test that hypothesis. 

Always something new to do.



#7 Dale A. Darling

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Posted 11 April 2017 - 03:08 PM

Teddy,
I use three turns on surgeons knots unless the material is heavier than 3X. Usually six turns in a blood knot, unless I'm adding 2-X lighter diameter. Then I use 5 turns if the thickrr, 6 on the thinner. Homer Rhodes is a great knot that I also used on salt, especially with wire and 60+ pound shock tippet with tarpon.

Never use maxima or fluorocarbon in fresh water. Other than maxima for Atlsntyd salmon, and floro in the salt. Still used turn blood knots to attach floro tippet to mono leaders. No breakage issues thrre.
Dale "Fly fishing: a pleasantly addictive affliction"

My website here: http://www.riverforkpress.com
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#8 Dale A. Darling

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 02:52 PM

Ted,

How do you tie that loop knot? The Homer Rhodes ends up with the tag away from the fly.
Dale "Fly fishing: a pleasantly addictive affliction"

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#9 ted patlen

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 08:50 PM

dale...that's why i sait "I THINK"   alll these knot are variations of almost the same thing.  (arguable !!!!!!!!)

tie the square knot , pass the tag end throught the eye then back through the kbot (same as the H. Rhode)

 

here it differs

then pinch both the tag end and the running line about 3 inches or so above the square knot then wrap the tag end back towards the square knot three times then through the square knot  so the tag end points to the fly. Tighten slowly.   the loop can be manipulated to size...

 

if the tag end is left very long it makes a nice weed guard...



#10 Dale A. Darling

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 09:15 PM

I agree on knots. Tying to omits with loops are similar to one another, tying to hook without loops are similar, and tying one material to another are similar.

Good explanation. Your sort of tying a 3 turn unimproved clinch back tpearls the eye. The tag goes through the overhand knot.

Teaching a local guy to tie clouser minnows for redfish. He just started tying. Having a hard time with thread control due to how he's holding the bobbin. Interesting to watch.
Dale "Fly fishing: a pleasantly addictive affliction"

My website here: http://www.riverforkpress.com
Voted 2017 sexiest fly tier of the year