Jump to content

ClassicFlyTying.com Sponsors
Hand Made Salmon Hooks
Ronn Lucas, Sr.
www.ronnlucassr.com
(503)654-0466
[email protected]

Photo

Dry flies and fast water...


  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#1 Barkworth

Barkworth

    ClassicFlyTying.net

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,239 posts

Posted 01 September 2014 - 08:18 AM

Very often, there are moments in the day where fishing a wet fly or a streamer simply isn't an option. I have succesfully changed to dry flies at such times before, but I am a complete noob on the subject. I found the White Wulff to be very effective, but after a few casts in a decent stream, it tends to sink. I use "spray dry" and stuff, but still...

 

Joonas recommended me a Finnish classic named Nalle Puh. It is brown and floats like a dream, so now I have a brown and a white favorite.

 

My question for you today is, what can I do when tying a dry fly, to improve it's floating capabilities, and are there any other patterns to recommend for Salmon on a sunny day or right before sunset?

Thanks in advance!


  www.ClassicFlyTying.net

the reference guide for traditional salmon fly tying...


#2 Jare

Jare

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 207 posts

Posted 01 September 2014 - 08:49 AM

Sorry, I have to correct the name of the Finnish classic. It's Nalle Puh (Winnie the pooh in english).



#3 geraldsherbrook

geraldsherbrook

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 19,617 posts

Posted 01 September 2014 - 10:39 AM

Dear ROBERT,

 

psttttttttttttttttttttttttt go searching on the net ...for UNSINKEBAL DRY FLIES !!!...by a certain DAVID COWARDIN !!! (he works with shrink tubes (heating them) putting in a sort of 'air bubble' in them !!! WORKS !!!

 

and ofcourse as we are all still a bit of the 'old' categorie...POLYPROPYLENE 'wingposts' of every possible visible colour ...DOES hold extemely well in 'FAST FLOWING WATER'...and this as prolypropylene WORKS to................as long their buoyancy isn't in contact with debrisses and sand or other things ...but believe me prolypropylene is lighter than any water...and thus floats !!!...

 

pstttttttttt ofcourse I repeat put a 'sack' of sand on human being who can swim...and he will drawn at 'long last' hahahhahahahaha (no I am not sarcastic !!!)

 

GOOD LUCK my friend !!!

 

psttttttttt when I was over 'last' year with my enemy of the heart DALE DARLING ...it was evident that even they fished small dry flies in sizes 16/18/22/22 (no not bigger) and in realy but then realy 'fast flowing' Colorado water...their FLIES drifted 'perfect' for long long times ...ofcourse a bit of 'beauty creme' on their arse or 'wing post' added ...they floated like a cork !!!

 

Geert


Voted Sexiest Fly Tyer for 2013

#4 Barkworth

Barkworth

    ClassicFlyTying.net

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,239 posts

Posted 01 September 2014 - 10:41 AM

Sorry, I have to correct the name of the Finnish classic. It's Nalle Puh (Winnie the pooh in english).


My apologies. I have edited the name in the original post. Thank you :-)


  www.ClassicFlyTying.net

the reference guide for traditional salmon fly tying...


#5 Barkworth

Barkworth

    ClassicFlyTying.net

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,239 posts

Posted 01 September 2014 - 10:44 AM

Thank you, Geert. Airbubbles... it sounds unsinkable... I'll have to ask about this in the local store.

I suppose really tight dubbing has something to say. What about the hackle? Stiff hackle, or dense hackle? What about wings, do they help the float or are they only a profile to trick the fish?


  www.ClassicFlyTying.net

the reference guide for traditional salmon fly tying...


#6 phg

phg

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 432 posts

Posted 01 September 2014 - 12:29 PM

Most dry flies are constructed on light wire hooks, to reduce weight. Also, if you use a dubbed body and work a lot of paste floatant into it, that helps. I've heard varying opinions about getting floatant on the hackle, but in my experience, it doesn't hurt. Quill bodies don't benefit as much from flotant.

Flies intended for rough water, like the Wulff series, are tied a little fatter (so the dubbing traps more air), have hollow fiber wings and tail, and are more heavily hackled. Even so, you have to whip them dry between casts, and eventually they will get waterlogged anyway. Here in the southeast, we tend to hackle everything a bit heavily, because most of our trout streams are high gradient. Higher barb count means the weight is distributed over more points of contact on the surface tension. Bushy tails help in this as well.

#7 ted patlen

ted patlen

    marstons mills, massachusetts....cape cod

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,079 posts

Posted 01 September 2014 - 02:05 PM

some patterns to think about besides the wulffs...buck bugs, bombers, rat-face mcdougal, and any pattern tied on a "gyro" or parachute hackle...heavily, heavily hackled...



#8 Dale A. Darling

Dale A. Darling

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9,138 posts

Posted 01 September 2014 - 04:41 PM

I've always figured the best way to keep a dry dry is to make drag free drifts that don't sink the fly. Keep it dry by pulling it off the water on the pickup cast, rather than pulling it under with poor line control. The false cast might use high line speed to dry what water is on the fly, and a delicate presentation - even on fast water - will allow the fly to lightly land on the water rather than splashing into it.
After one or two fish I change fly and pattern. That one worked, what about this one ?
Also - when a fly gets waterlogged, squeeze the water out of it in a piece of cloth. If it was very wet, treat with a powder , squeeze it into the fly , but then blow it all out before applying more paste.
That's how I treated Geert when he fell in, just to keep him uptight on the water.
Good luck!
Dale "Fly fishing: a pleasantly addictive affliction"

My website here: http://www.riverforkpress.com
Voted 2017 sexiest fly tier of the year

#9 Barkworth

Barkworth

    ClassicFlyTying.net

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,239 posts

Posted 01 September 2014 - 07:45 PM

Thanks all. Some great tips that I will try and use to my avantage.


  www.ClassicFlyTying.net

the reference guide for traditional salmon fly tying...


#10 Bud Guidry

Bud Guidry

    Ragin Cajun

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPip
  • 13,396 posts

Posted 02 September 2014 - 03:58 AM

dale, when I took my state record trophy lamprey eel I was using bad cast and the fly was sinking when i'd pull to make my back cast, well, between you and I that's what I told teddy but I was doing it intentionally to sink the dry fly and set the state record and it worked, to this day teddy must still think I cast like crap. it also kept him quite some distance from me when I was casting. this cast requires at least 150 feet of open obstruction free water BEHIND you to do successfully. if you ever attempt to break my record make sure you have a good net guy like teddy who can run around in waders for 15 or 20 minutes to net the beast. his strong new jersey accent laid a comical relief to the thrashing I could hear before me in the darkness but it did give me some assurance. I always knew which direction he was running , the sounds of water thrashing and his cussing was great relief knowing I had a professional unseen before me

thanks teddy

edit, so dale, you had to powder geert and PASTE him?

RAmidbuck.GIF
MY FLY PATTERN DATABASE

 

FOUNDER AND PRESIDENT OF THE OFFICIAL CLASSICS PAGE SLACKERS CLUB
HONORARY WINNER OF THE 2011 BIGGEST SLACKER AWARD

http://flyfishline.com/art_gallery2.php

My mind belongs to this forum
My heart belongs to my family
My soul belongs to my flies


#11 geraldsherbrook

geraldsherbrook

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 19,617 posts

Posted 02 September 2014 - 05:16 PM

Dear ROBERT and DALE and BUD,

 

Strange that I get involved ...as it would be ME...who needs buoyancy !!! (yes it's again that 'enemy' of the heart who had to bring me in a seriously 'BAD DAYLIGHT'........pstttttttt euh and even I have to say it myself... 

at LEAST I SHINE ON THE 'SURFACE'  of a 'fast river' ...and I AM STILL AM DRY hahahahaha (that's what they say uphere when YOU 'drink' with Belgium moderation !!! hahahahaha words of a ex-copper ! wink !

 

pstttttttttttt DALE 'I love YOU my friend'...YOU may 'depart now' ...ah I asked my very very best 'friend' from 'higher up' ...that he BLESS(es) YOU AND YOUR SHAN on the 'route' !!!

 

Geert and Nathalie and Lieve and Siegbrand


Voted Sexiest Fly Tyer for 2013

#12 BSH

BSH

    Bogdan Shivrinskiy St.Petersburg, Russia

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,511 posts

Posted 03 September 2014 - 06:23 AM

Robert, are you talking dry fly for salmon?



Cheers,
Bogdan Shivrinskiy

www.facebook.com/b.shivrinskiy

#13 Barkworth

Barkworth

    ClassicFlyTying.net

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,239 posts

Posted 03 September 2014 - 08:38 AM

Yes!

  www.ClassicFlyTying.net

the reference guide for traditional salmon fly tying...


#14 BSH

BSH

    Bogdan Shivrinskiy St.Petersburg, Russia

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,511 posts

Posted 03 September 2014 - 09:37 AM

Okay, thus we can forget about klinkhammers with foam..... hehe (this was actually in FF&FT Magazine several years ago, when the foam was tied in the thorax to improve the floatation). For example, you can tie walker or waker or bomber fly with foam body, which will never sink. Also this might be kind of a Humpy with the foam underneath the back made of deer hair. Many things can be done.



Cheers,
Bogdan Shivrinskiy

www.facebook.com/b.shivrinskiy

#15 Barkworth

Barkworth

    ClassicFlyTying.net

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,239 posts

Posted 03 September 2014 - 11:31 AM

Thanks Bogdan, I think I should do some experimenting with this. I love to stripe the flies through the surface, and with a 42mm leader, you can imagine it being hard to keep things dry. 


  www.ClassicFlyTying.net

the reference guide for traditional salmon fly tying...


#16 BSH

BSH

    Bogdan Shivrinskiy St.Petersburg, Russia

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,511 posts

Posted 03 September 2014 - 12:29 PM

Hmmmm... in addition I might also mention, that the very subsurface fly is not that less effective. Remember also hitch technique with small plastic tubes.



Cheers,
Bogdan Shivrinskiy

www.facebook.com/b.shivrinskiy

#17 Dale A. Darling

Dale A. Darling

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9,138 posts

Posted 03 September 2014 - 03:08 PM

Bud!
So you're a writer, a fisherman and a liar. Great! Me too.
I didn't have to paste Geert all that much; for a small wet fly the fellow can put away the whiskey. Although he didn't behave as though he was pasted, when he waded - or sank, as the case was at any moment - he left an odiferous scum line that flowed down current with some of his fishing stuff. (A day later, most of mine followed suit.) The fish that ate emerging insects from the whiskey flavored scum line were difficult to hook because, like Teddy, they were swimming iratically, cussing and thrashing all over the place. (At least we knew where they were!) Well, in the midst of this circus, the most esteemed Dr Vestal and I laughed so hard we couldn't see our drifting dries for the tears in our eyes. At long last Geert tried to net the fish - a few very large eels, I might add - but fell in again, in need of dry shake and more paste.
A sad, sordid affair such as one would expect from a whiskey drinking Belgian copper. Nathalie is a saint.
dd
Dale "Fly fishing: a pleasantly addictive affliction"

My website here: http://www.riverforkpress.com
Voted 2017 sexiest fly tier of the year

#18 ted patlen

ted patlen

    marstons mills, massachusetts....cape cod

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,079 posts

Posted 15 September 2014 - 06:14 PM

at my age it ain'y swearing...I'm just colorful  :)



#19 Gordeaux

Gordeaux

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,843 posts

Posted 01 September 2016 - 06:21 PM

When I fish heavy and fast water I use flies that are hackled very full and don't have a problem with them   sinking as long as your doing a good job of mending your line.



#20 Probie

Probie

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 123 posts

Posted 02 September 2016 - 01:15 AM

dale, when I took my state record trophy lamprey eel I was using bad cast and the fly was sinking when i'd pull to make my back cast, well, between you and I that's what I told teddy but I was doing it intentionally to sink the dry fly and set the state record and it worked, to this day teddy must still think I cast like crap. it also kept him quite some distance from me when I was casting. this cast requires at least 150 feet of open obstruction free water BEHIND you to do successfully. if you ever attempt to break my record make sure you have a good net guy like teddy who can run around in waders for 15 or 20 minutes to net the beast. his strong new jersey accent laid a comical relief to the thrashing I could hear before me in the darkness but it did give me some assurance. I always knew which direction he was running , the sounds of water thrashing and his cussing was great relief knowing I had a professional unseen before methanks teddyedit, so dale, you had to powder geert and PASTE him?


Lampreys aren't eels but that's not what this thread was about. Coleman fuel and paraffin. Best floatant you can buy or make yourself.