Jump to content

ClassicFlyTying.com Sponsors
Hand Made Salmon Hooks
Ronn Lucas, Sr.
www.ronnlucassr.com
(503)654-0466
[email protected]

Photo

WING SETTER


  • Please log in to reply
61 replies to this topic

#41 JPS

JPS

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 415 posts

Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:05 PM

Just keep going at your own pace you will get thre in the end.

regards John



#42 ZiaFly

ZiaFly

    Taos, NM USA

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 571 posts

Posted 09 January 2013 - 02:36 PM

Interesting conversation.  Here's my thoughts. 

I struggled with setting wings myself until I learned the proper pressure techniques.  I have a natural tremor in my hands that causes me to shake like a leaf at times.  The one thing that worked for me was to focus on my breathing while setting a wing, or any part of the fly that requires a bit of fine dexterity.  After a session of fly tying, I had noticed that I was by far more relaxed than I was when I sat down to tie.  For me, tying is a meditation.  If you are setting a wing and it doesn't look right, continue your breathing and deal with the flaw.  In through nose, and out through mouth.  Mr. Miyagi was onto something!  Breathing definitely helps with my tremors, and I think it helps contain frustration. 

Also, for years, I had used the Vulcan Death Grip using my thumb and 1st finger.  I saw Chuck Vestal in Denver once, and he got me to start using my thumb and middle finger.  The end result was a straighter wing with no twist whatsoever. 

Whether you are using your fingers for traditional wing setting, or you are using a tool, just remember that the whole point is to relax and to create. 

And breathe!!!

Spencer


"If fishing is interfering with your business, give up your business."

~by Alfred W. Miller~

#43 Healing Waters

Healing Waters

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 36 posts

Posted 10 January 2013 - 04:36 PM

Hi everyone,

 

Totally new to classic tying and although I am not ready or closed to tie wings yet, I  am thinking about it and have difficulties visualizing how the compressing is done with the hand that usually hold the bobbin while a vulcan grip is applied with the holding hand. Had tried Michael Radendich's technique of compressing with both hands but still, was not able to execute. Why ?  Short tips to play with, the eye of a traditional hook is a nuisance, or what ??? Thank you very much. 

 

Andrew



#44 geraldsherbrook

geraldsherbrook

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 19,617 posts

Posted 10 January 2013 - 08:04 PM

Dear Members,

 

I readed this 'thread' day after day !!!.......and I 'love' this thread ! hahahahahaha serious WING (wink ! it must be ! TO 'everybody')

 

pstttttttt SPENCER and CHUCK (Chuck You will even witness that Yourself when I come over in september)...unluckely to must 'say' that I lack the first 'phalanx' of my longest left finger (so I can't bring my 'MIDDLE FINGER' into play ! to set my wings !!! hahahahaha

 

and Chuck YOU never know there is a Belgium copper 'dissapeared' around there in september...if they find 'me' ...say to the 'investigators of the case' that if they find my body (most probably in the hidden secret cellar of the 'cannibal of the High Grounds')...that it is ME when I lack that 'bit' of that left middlefinger ! hahahahaha

 

Of one thing I am sure ...a good 'grip' of Your wingslips inbetween Your fingers helps...aswell a flytyingthread who YOU feel still 'going' against the inside of Your fingers when making those first two wraps !!! (as YOU feel then where Your thread and valley YOU have made will 'go' and 'appear'...and lifting those 'wingslip butts/ends' help coniderably toooooooo in making a valley and setting that wing !!! and then on the third wrap putting the tension ...again a wrap and again tension !!!...ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I am convinced that there are so many ways to 'skin' that CAT (psttttttttttttttttttt I hope DALE doesn't read this ...as he's used to 'skin' other things ! hahahaha)

 

As everyone brought forward..........practise and experience is (not speaking for those who are realy suffering fysical on the fingers or arms)...in most cases the 'key' to success ...at least ONE comes better with lots of practise !!!

 

and and and I am sure everyone has that experience still once in a while....that the 'WING' doesn't want to GO on as we wished toooooooooo (sometimes little elements play their 'role' then)...thickness of the 'married' fibers on the TIE in spot plays more often than not 'then' their role...(fibers who come loose or apart with the compression...and so on !!! ...pstttttttttt it's brought over allready in setting wings ...a tinny bit of spit to moisten and soften a bit the fibers of Your married wing at the tie in spot helps tooooooooo !!!.....

 

a flat platform is sooooooooo important...and I like my platform at least at the same level of my 'body' to set that 'all important' wing...!!!

 

I don't dare to say that I never struggle anymore in setting my wings !!!

 

my two cents !!!

 

Geert.............(psttttttttttt SPENCER YOU don't go to a 'relaxation center' in Your neighbourhood ...yes where they learn IN AND OUT ...IN AND OUT ...IN AND OUT !!!! hahahahahaha)


Voted Sexiest Fly Tyer for 2013

#45 DAVEL

DAVEL

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,918 posts

Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:42 AM

This is a great thread Gentelmen...I have also struggled with setting wings on my wet flies until one nite I was tying some wets and was struggeling with the wing and was ready to explode!....I sat back in the chair and did some breathing...IN & OUT...IN & OUT!!smile.png ...Then it hit me!

 

I hold the wing at the tie in point with my left hand, thumb and index finger(I am right handed) hold it a thread thickness above the hook where it is to be tied in. Then I take the thread/bobbin and make a loop around the wing, but not around the hook shank. As your making the loop/noose around

 

the wing you are pinching the thread between your fingers. At this point you should have the wing and thread pinched between your fingers with the bobbin hanging down on the opposite side.

 

Now you can grab the butt end with your right hand while still holding the thread and tie in spot with the left Sloooowly release the thread you have pinched the weight of the hanging bobbin will gather the wing material with equal pressure from top to bottom to side to side.

 

Also remember you are still holding the wing at the tie in spot an the the butt end at the same time, so once the weight of the bobbin has made the noose tight you can set the wing where ever you want TDC (top dead center) as long as you have the weight of the bobbin hanging.

 

Once you have the wing where you want it ..hold it in place with the left hand and make a few tight wraps around the hook shank at the tie in spot.

 

This has worked for me on the wets I tie...I haven't tried it on the MONSTER wings of the salmon flies.

Hope some of this made sence or helped someone.

And please don't forget to breath!....IN&OUT....IN&OUT!!!biggrin.png

 

Dave



#46 SC Fly Tyer

SC Fly Tyer

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 172 posts

Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:53 AM

All -

This thread continues to enlighten me and I appreciate the recent editions from Spencer, Geert, Dave, and others. It appears that setting wings is a common malady. This gives me a little reassurance that I may eventually find the secret. It's also evident that there are a number of potential techniques and it all comes down to invidual choice -- finding a technique that one is confident and comfortable with is key. One of these days, I will try to sit down and try a number of them; making notes and taking pictures as I go. But, they're forecasting 75 and sunny in SC this weekend and it will be hard to stray from the golf course and freshly stocked tailwater!

Thanks again for all he helpful tips and encouragement.

John

#47 Healing Waters

Healing Waters

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 36 posts

Posted 11 January 2013 - 03:23 PM

All,

 

Also find this greatly informative and will try on salmon flies I am tying for the pleasure. Thanks to those who share their technique.

 

Andrew



#48 geraldsherbrook

geraldsherbrook

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 19,617 posts

Posted 11 January 2013 - 04:13 PM

Dear SPENCER,

 

psttttttttttttttt I will confess that I 'sometimes' (yes sometimes) take a 'DEEP BREATH' tooooooooooooooooo...

 

even we 'breath' ALL.......some do it be 'other' than 'others' !!!

 

and I know that my 'Nathalie' learned to 'breath' by 'her' belly ...she does her exercises (to relax)  allmost every night before sleeping !!! (let say during 5 minutes !!!)...and again I repeat I AM serious and I BELIEVE YOU !!!

 

 

psttttttttttt and so in flytying it can have his 'use' toooooooooooooo...............................................................euh as it will be the case for Your wife when that magic moment or 'prelude' will be there with the birth of Your ? (daughter or son)

 

AH AH AH I think if we must confess ALL (I exclude not one of YOU !!! ...that during difficult stages in 'our' flytying (and setting a wing is a primordial stage in classic salmon flytying)...we STOPPED our 'breath' more than once !!!

 

SEEMS I MUST LEARN 'that bellybreathing' ...I am sure my Nathalie would have NO objections to learn it to me !!! hahahaha

 

let the WINGING and the DEEP BREATH's....IN AND OUT ...CONTINUE !!!

 

Geert


Voted Sexiest Fly Tyer for 2013

#49 Healing Waters

Healing Waters

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 36 posts

Posted 12 January 2013 - 03:47 PM

Confessed !!!



#50 AlbaSurf

AlbaSurf

    KarliRae

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 431 posts

Posted 16 January 2013 - 03:31 AM

I LAUGHED so hard when I read this last page of responses! Many thanks to those who have contributed to rescuing this thread from the FLAMES and making it quite helpful and informative. 

And to Geert for his ever-welcome comic relief!

 

roflmao.gif

 

Karli-Rae


...
"Nursing is an art: and if it is to be made an art,
It requires an exclusive devotion as hard a preparation,
as any painter's or sculptor's work; for what is the having to do with dead canvas or dead marble,
compared with having to do with the living body, the temple of God's spirit?
It is one of the Fine Arts:
I had almost said, the finest of Fine Arts."
-- Florence Nightingale

“Adventure is a path. Real adventure - self-determined, self-motivated, often risky - forces you to have firsthand encounters with the world. The world the way it is, not the way you imagine it. Your body will collide with the earth and you will bear witness. In this way you will be compelled to grapple with the limitless kindness and bottomless cruelty of humankind - and perhaps realize that you yourself are capable of both. This will change you. Nothing will ever again be black-and-white.”
--Mark Jenkins

#51 JPS

JPS

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 415 posts

Posted 17 January 2013 - 12:04 AM

yep been there i have for years taken a deep dreath  and held it until i tied in the wing  force of habbit now

regards john



#52 Dale A. Darling

Dale A. Darling

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9,138 posts

Posted 17 January 2013 - 11:19 PM

GEERT!!!

 

Unless you break a beer bottle before throwing it one of my birds, and still release it so it cuts off another finger or anatomical appendage, you should return home to your belly-breathing Nathalie complete and in one piece. I will not comment on the state of your mental or emotional sanity, however, but hope you'll be better for deep breathing the high mountain air of Colorado - if you can breathe, that is.

 

Maybe you should allow Nathalie to teach you a thing or two about belly breathing!

 

Skinning cats probably does take on a variety of styles, based on what works best, how still the cat is at the time and so on. The thing is, there are plenty of hooks and feathers, or cats, as you wish, to practice on; keep trying and do what works!

 

Enjoy the process.

 

GEERT!!!!!!

 

Get to that breathing practice, will you please?

 

dd


Dale "Fly fishing: a pleasantly addictive affliction"

My website here: http://www.riverforkpress.com
Voted 2017 sexiest fly tier of the year

#53 Bud Guidry

Bud Guidry

    Ragin Cajun

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPip
  • 13,402 posts

Posted 20 January 2013 - 05:33 AM

SC fly tyer,      I have a post about tying on a married wing in tutorial section, with pics,  shows how to make compression and ending with thread wraps. have a look,  many here found that it helped big time tying on these wings,  you can actually make most of the compression using your fingers before you make a single thread wrap.  it works great.  I've tied on thousands of wings using this method   no exaggeration, literally thoousands of wings tied on using this technique. . tied flies with eight wings using this method but I advise not to hold your  breath to tie in multiple wings, you'll most likely pass out before you get them all on


RAmidbuck.GIF
MY FLY PATTERN DATABASE

 

FOUNDER AND PRESIDENT OF THE OFFICIAL CLASSICS PAGE SLACKERS CLUB
HONORARY WINNER OF THE 2011 BIGGEST SLACKER AWARD

http://flyfishline.com/art_gallery2.php

My mind belongs to this forum
My heart belongs to my family
My soul belongs to my flies


#54 SC Fly Tyer

SC Fly Tyer

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 172 posts

Posted 20 January 2013 - 02:18 PM

Thanks Bud. I have been looking at that tutorial (and all the tutorials for that matter!) and have found them very, very helpful. I am actually working through your underbody and tag tutorial now. That and help from members is really giving me a boost. I am hoping that there will be some in person demonstrations at the Fly Fishing Show in Winston-Salem. Thanks again.

#55 geraldsherbrook

geraldsherbrook

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 19,617 posts

Posted 20 January 2013 - 03:48 PM

Dear ALL,

 

As the SNOW is 'falling' UPHERE in uncountable numbers on a allready ICY 'underground'...

 

I forgot to mention perhaps ONE if NOT the most IMPORTANT 'attention point' in setting a decent looking WING of any kind !!!

 

TRY TO STAY as upright on that platform as YOU can !!! ...pstttttttttt YES I mean right in the middle is PERFECT !!!

 

sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo stay a feet ...euh euh read ON the hook and not aside the hook YOU are tying 'on'.....

 

in the meanwhile we will do 'our' best to STAY on 'our' feets uphere tooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

Thank YOU for Your attention ! hahahahaha

 

Geert

 

to be continued I HOPE ...


Voted Sexiest Fly Tyer for 2013

#56 phg

phg

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 432 posts

Posted 20 January 2013 - 05:25 PM

The fly tiers for the W-S show haven't been announced, and probably won't be until the last minute, if at all.  I've never paid a whole lot of attention to the salmon fly tiers, as I don't tie them myself, but Stack Scoville usually comes, and there will probably be 2, maybe 3 more.  It is unlikely that there will be anyone tying classic wet flies. 

 

I'll be there in the FFF booth, so look me up. 



#57 SC Fly Tyer

SC Fly Tyer

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 172 posts

Posted 20 January 2013 - 06:07 PM

Thanks phg. I have been following the website for the W-S show. I'll be sure to look you up.

#58 Healing Waters

Healing Waters

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 36 posts

Posted 21 January 2013 - 05:30 PM

SC fly tyer,      I have a post about tying on a married wing in tutorial section, with pics,  shows how to make compression and ending with thread wraps. have a look,  many here found that it helped big time tying on these wings,  you can actually make most of the compression using your fingers before you make a single thread wrap.  it works great.  I've tied on thousands of wings using this method   no exaggeration, literally thoousands of wings tied on using this technique. . tied flies with eight wings using this method but I advise not to hold your  breath to tie in multiple wings, you'll most likely pass out before you get them all on

Hi Bud,

 

I too, have found your tutorial to be very informative. I have difficulties visualizing the details of how the compression is realized with your right hand when holding very tight with your left so the wing do not move... which fingers of your right  do you use and what do they do...eg.... push down from top to bottom with your nail or some other tool or some other technique ?

 

Thank you for your help.

 

Andrew



#59 Ronn Lucas

Ronn Lucas

    Advanced Member

  • Administrators
  • PipPipPip
  • 19,301 posts

Posted 22 January 2013 - 02:45 AM

Andrew, have you tried setting wings? There is probably no single other part of a fly as difficult to learn to do than set a wing without folds or slippage other than maybe smooth floss. Both take a lot of time practicing over and over and over. Tying these flies is much like solving any problem...... EVERY tiny move of your hands, the thread and direction has a direct effect/result.....pay attention, really pay close attention to everything as you do it......did it work? Why or why not? Repeat what works and discard what doesn’t. Keep in mind that you know it can be done.......you’ve seen it or at least the results. And, it’s just feathers!
 
It’s been my experience that no single technique seems to work for me, rather, it is a distillation of techniques that work for me. And, I am constantly learning!

Happy Trails!
Ronn


My Website
http://www.ronnlucassr.com/
APPLE FRITTER BANDIT

#60 Healing Waters

Healing Waters

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 36 posts

Posted 22 January 2013 - 01:32 PM

Andrew, have you tried setting wings? There is probably no single other part of a fly as difficult to learn to do than set a wing without folds or slippage other than maybe smooth floss. Both take a lot of time practicing over and over and over. Tying these flies is much like solving any problem...... EVERY tiny move of your hands, the thread and direction has a direct effect/result.....pay attention, really pay close attention to everything as you do it......did it work? Why or why not? Repeat what works and discard what doesn’t. Keep in mind that you know it can be done.......you’ve seen it or at least the results. And, it’s just feathers!
 
It’s been my experience that no single technique seems to work for me, rather, it is a distillation of techniques that work for me. And, I am constantly learning!

Ronn,

 

I have tried once with married wings, had fold which scrap the whole project. Since, I practice with unmarried wing parts and have not achieve proper results. Will continue until i find it. Thank you.

 

Andrrew