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Dry flies and fast water...


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#21 Marc LeBlanc

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Posted 02 September 2016 - 11:33 AM

For White Wulffs, I like to use polar bear underfur for dubbing. Looks great (shines) and it repels water. And it is legal in Canada so no issues on that front.

We use a lot of spun deer hair bombers over here. There are two schools of thought on tying them. 1) pack the deer hair tightly with the thought more deer hair= more hollow hair = more trapped air and 2) pack the deer hair lightly = less weight and therefore floats better. I prefer option 2 with lots of dense and long hackles (usually cock saddle, 2 or 4 hackles per fly). A bit of your favorite paste and they float like a cork and last a long time. Most of the time I don't even use any paste.

Marc

PS- Bud's record lamprey post from years ago is in my top 5 posts in this forum! It is a classic.

#22 Barkworth

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 06:15 AM

When I fish heavy and fast water I use flies that are hackled very full and don't have a problem with them   sinking as long as your doing a good job of mending your line.

So, mending the line is the key to keep it afloat?

Rv-

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#23 Dale A. Darling

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 04:20 PM

Robert
Very much so. While floatant helps, keeping the fly on the surface by controlling the line does the most. A few good, fast false casts also shake water out of a fly.

I can fish one dry fly, say a Royal Wulff, for quite some time while hooking a number of fish without retreating it. After releasing each fish, I shake the fly in the water to rinse away the slime, pat off the water on my shirt, make a few false casts and start fishing again.

If the water pulls the line, leader, tippet and fly under though, the fly often sinks until it is shook dry again.
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#24 Dale A. Darling

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Posted 03 September 2016 - 04:23 PM

Marc
I agree with you re: spun deer hair.

Bud is a one-of-a-kind classic.

Hope you're well my friend.
Dale
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#25 Barkworth

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 05:34 AM

Dale, that makes sense. My flies float until the line runs out, then they get pulled under. Next cast, still floating, but soon it sinks. Shaking it dry won't help much then. 

I don't fish dry flies very often, obviously, but I want to learn it, to have an extra option for still pools. The flies I use are for Salmon, and quite large. I'm thinking presentation technique, as you guys suggest, but also better tying of the fly. Stubborn old me only wants to use traditional materials, which doesn't make it much easier, I suppose. But a man should stay true to himself.

 

Rv-


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#26 Marc LeBlanc

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 10:46 AM

So, mending the line is the key to keep it afloat?
Rv-


I couldn't agree more. Excellent thoughts Dale. Mending the line is key for 2 reasons in my experience. 1) it keeps the fly afloat longer and 2) salmon prefer to take dry flies when they are not being dragged through the water. Try to dead drift the fly as long as you can. This requires near constant mending of the line.

Fishing dry flies for salmon is a lot of work (false casting, mending, watching, .....) compared to fishing them with wets but it sure is a lot of fun to watch large salmon take dry flies!

Marc

#27 Dale A. Darling

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Posted 04 September 2016 - 01:40 PM

Marc, I'm not one for envy, but if I was its be for you guys in eastern Canada who fish salmon with dries more than not. The one trip I took to Quebec was all dries. I thought of presentation as I do when fishing to trout eating midges, or when pocket picking with a Wulff. Same line control, mending, drifts and so on.
Robert, the pickup cast must happen before the fly begins to swing. And that stroke must not pull the fly under the water.
Key to a good drift most of the rine is keeping the fly down current from the line, leader and tippet unless the current between where you're standing and the drift of the fly is all about equal in tempo. You might read my little boom Presentation 101 for more specifics than I can write here.
Kerp in mind that mends move line, leader and tippet, but not the fly. The fly is as magnetized on the water where it lands, in current where it drifts. The other stuff is often in motion to keep the fly put.
Dale "Fly fishing: a pleasantly addictive affliction"

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#28 Barkworth

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Posted 05 September 2016 - 06:53 PM

Thanks guys, much appreciated!

Rv-


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#29 ted patlen

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Posted 12 September 2016 - 02:01 PM

well said Dale...



#30 Dale A. Darling

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Posted 16 September 2016 - 03:00 AM

Thanks Teddie. Hope you're well!
Dale "Fly fishing: a pleasantly addictive affliction"

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#31 Barkworth

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 08:35 PM

Marc, I'm not one for envy, but if I was its be for you guys in eastern Canada who fish salmon with dries more than not. The one trip I took to Quebec was all dries. I thought of presentation as I do when fishing to trout eating midges, or when pocket picking with a Wulff. Same line control, mending, drifts and so on.
Robert, the pickup cast must happen before the fly begins to swing. And that stroke must not pull the fly under the water.
Key to a good drift most of the rine is keeping the fly down current from the line, leader and tippet unless the current between where you're standing and the drift of the fly is all about equal in tempo. You might read my little boom Presentation 101 for more specifics than I can write here.
Kerp in mind that mends move line, leader and tippet, but not the fly. The fly is as magnetized on the water where it lands, in current where it drifts. The other stuff is often in motion to keep the fly put.

 

Would you recommend light equipment over heavy? I find this a difficult question, because if a 30Lb salmon would hit a #8 single handed rod, you're in for some serious pain in the arms. I mean, they are hard enough to land on a 14'... At the same time, heavy means more splashing, right?

Rv-


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#32 Dale A. Darling

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 01:14 AM

I landed three good salmon on dries in Quebec. One was over 26 pounds according to the guide. I used a 9.5' 8 weight with 8 pound maxima. No problem. It's how one fights them I guess. Led Wulff landes big salmon on a 6' 6-weight bamboo Rod, as did a dear friend of mine who fished with Lee.
I guess you'll have to try it Robert.
Dale "Fly fishing: a pleasantly addictive affliction"

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#33 Barkworth

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 05:16 AM

Alright sir. I guess that means light equipment then. Haha :-)

 

Rv-


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#34 Dale A. Darling

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 12:59 PM

Funny perspectives. An 8 to me is heavy. I've caught loads of bonefish up to close to ten pounds, small tarpon, permit, jacks, and other very fast and strong saltwater fish on an 8: jones on a six! And even though I took great delight in fighting and landing the few salmon I gave hooked, I didn't fibd that they fought nearly as hard as the saltwater fish. Perspective, and practice that becomes habit, are funny things.
Good luck with dries Robert.
Dale
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#35 Barkworth

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 03:54 PM

I totally get your point. Funny indeed. I promise you that if I would go trout fishing here, with a #8 or larger, people would look at me as if I was crazy, but if I would go salmon fishing with a #5, the same thing would happen.

 

Thanks again for all the help and insights!

Rv-


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#36 Dale A. Darling

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 03:58 PM

I got that using a 6 in the salt. Who cares? On the very windy flats good casts with lighter lines are actually easier due to the thinness of the line I. The wind. Funny stuff.
The other thing in fishing, like tying, is to use what you have but GO FISHING SOON ABD OFTEN
Dale "Fly fishing: a pleasantly addictive affliction"

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